goldfish is a big producer of biological waste and the more you have the worst it gets. Situation will even be aggravated if you feed more. Therefore, you need lots of bio-material to counter this. Cloudy water is a signal that your bio filtration is insufficient. No matter how much mech filtration and water change you do, it will get cloudy within a few days.
The only way to counter this problem is to have a very good filtration system (besides doing frequent water change, if you can afford). You need a big storage space for the bio-material (ie. sump tank, big canister > 20L, multi-layers wet-dry OHF types + a strong power head (> 2000 l/h)).
As mentioned earlier, when you are into this hobby, don't be shy about filtration, go for overkill. If no budget constraint, go for a good and powerful one and get the problem solve once and for all, rather then keep on adding filter to your tank.
With this, you might be able to get crystal clear water without having to go into UGF.

I think the mechanical and biological filtration works very well for Eheim Ecco.
It's very user-friendly too.

True. I totally agree with you. By having a big area to contain the biological wastes, it'll give time for the bacteria to braek it down to harmless chemicals.

When you mentioned 'powerful one', what is it you are referring to?

I mean the whole filter system BTW, what do you have in your Ecco Eheim filter. Can let me know the material sequence inside

From bottom up:

1st layer (bottom layer): coarse filter pad
2nd layer: Substrate
3rd layer: Substrate
4th layer: Fine filter pad
5th layer (top layer): carbon filter pad

Unlike Eheim recommendation (which I usually have doubt), the local practice is usally fine filter pad first at water inlet, irregardless of what type of filter. The is to prevent debrics particles from getting to your substrate BB and affecting their functioning.

I think the coarse filter is atthe bottom so as to trap the bigger particles. Bigger particles tend to sink. As the finer particles continue to float in the cannister, the finer filter medium will be able to trap it even though it's atthe top. As for the substrate, it's in the middle so that it can have contact with both the coarse and fine filter medium as it's between the two of them.

Not sure what do you mean by floating particles. If you refer to the Ecco Eheim manual, the direction of water is flowing from top inlet through the side and up through the filter medium to the outlet, power by the motor head. In short, water is force through from bottom up and the gunk and debrics particles are trapped along the way. My point is all these may get trapped in your substrate and may affect the BB efficiency in your setup. If I am not wrong, the blue course filter also act as a bio-foam and if you have it as your first layer, it will loss it bio function. My recommended setup will be as follow for max efficiency:-

1st layer (bottom layer): Fine filter pad
2nd layer: Substrate
3rd layer: Substrate
4th layer: Course filter pad
5th layer: Fine filter pad
6th layer (top layer): carbon filter pad

ok ... show my simple tank ...

2 sponge filters, and bottom filled with large pebbles.
4x1.5x1.5 tank. weekly 99% water change. nothing more than that.
Total body length (exclude tail) is 25" ... 4 pompoms.




This post has been edited by The Matrix: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:45 pm

WAH! Red pompom purple goldfish leh boys!

So far, I did not notice much particles trapped by the substrate.
Amazing, My tank is getting cleaner by the day.
You see, my fish laid some eggs 2 days ago but I think it's not worth trying to raise the fries so I just left them there. The water got a bit cloudy at first but it's super clear when I looked at it this morning. This has convinced me that my current set-up shouldn't be that bad although there may be better suggestions.
My philosophy is 'If it works for you, don't change it'.

Hello,
to get back to the original topic! what would you all reckon is btter having? a bare tnak or one with gravel? i personally have always had gravel and havent had all to much trouble with it! but it is a lot of work vacuum cleaning if you will and i am considering a bare tank next! so whats the benefit of a bare tank? and whats difficult about it? why is it hard to keep clear?

Hi,
I always feel that if you are comfortable with your system and the fishes are doing well. Keep it that way and enjoy the hobby.
There are many methods to keep the fish, so its up to each individual depending on his pocket, time, effort and space.

Black and White pebbles. The Yin & Yang Theme?.. hehe.. nice!

I'm new to goldfish, but I have kept a reef tank for two years. I believe that substrate could be better for the fish as long as you use a gravel vaccuum with your water changes. That way, you disturb the gravel so there is no trapped waste or spaces for noxious gases to build up. Also, the gravel vaccuum pulls out the unwanted detritus that builds up from the goldfish. You get both the aesthetics of gravel and the benefits of BB too if you are diligent on your water changes with the vaccuum.