Chloramine Level In Singapore?, Treating tap water containing chlorine / chloramine Options

[CP]

For info, PUB in the past was using Cl only to treat our water.  Since 10 years ago, PUB has been using Cl and ammonia for the treatment and this is why there is residual Cl and Chloramine (due to the binding of NH4 and Cl).  No change.

Anyone knows exactly when was chloramine introduced?Some said recently,some said few years ago, my guess is around 2001 or 2002, this is the first time someone said 10 years ago.

Any senior PUB officers around?

[ranchu8]

Any senior PUB officers around?

PUB director Matrix

ps i was told as such by a PUB officer but it was a short conversation cpiw you also?

[CP]

No I am not from PUB but CPIB hahaha no lah joking.

But I do deal with them occasionally since I am in the construction industry.

[wesbro]

No I am not from PUB but CPIB hahaha no lah joking.

But I do deal with them occasionally since I am in the construction industry.

I thought they will inform the public first before they will add something extra in our drinking water ? But i believe that this will not cause any effect on our fish keeping hobby. If not the whole Singapore fish keeping industries will be affected ma including all LFS.

[The Matrix]

Anyone knows exactly when was chloramine introduced?Some said recently,some said few years ago, my guess is around 2001 or 2002, this is the first time someone said 10 years ago.

Any senior PUB officers around?

The study of using alternative chlorine products started after WWII. Chlorine byproducts are more deadly to human. Trihalomethane for one is a sure killer. Can't recall but I know that there are extensive research and patents. WHO provided the guideline but it is up to individual countries to admistrate the implementation and study.

There are also some other chemicals that destroy terror threats. Maybe not here, PUB can answer to that ...

[CP]

Hi Wesbro,

It is not their duty to inform, they already have a website indicating the water parameters which insofar has complied to the WHO guidelines for drinking water.

Do note that they are supplying potable drinking water - straight from the tap.Not catering for the aqua industry/hobby.

Different species of fish are sensitive to different water parameters.For eg, marine LFS or hobbyists keeping invertebrates know very well that invertebrates are very sensitive to nitrates.Nitrates greater than 12pmm considered harmful.WHO guideline for nitrates in drinking water is under 50ppm, our tap water nitrates in Singapore not more than 15ppm.It is the duty of the LFS / hobbyist to know what PUB is supplying.

But I do know that they provide updates to more established entities if there are any change, such as the Singapore Koi Club.

[goldrush]

The reason why we switch to chloramine is becos it is not only more stable but more importantly Cl have been found to be carcinogenic when it react with organics in the water .Here is detailed review on chloramine for those hard core fans who love to digest facts and figures and the number of ways to remove it.

http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/813_Chloramines_.jsp

[The Matrix]

Anyway, I was told that some people might have over-reacted to this chloramine issue. Com'on, it's years since the implementation and nothing new at all. Unless the hobbyist is "brand-new" to keeping fish, otherwise, there is no alarm to it.

1st of all, chloramine only make up a small portion to your "misery" of fish keeping. And also the amount is too small to test using our common test kit. If the concentration is really small, colormetric test result will depends on your eye sight. Unless one is super rich and dunno what to do with the Lottery winnings, then open a lab to test. So just a simple, professional removal will do the whole job. I also know some install those super expensive carbon filter in household tap ... drink liao very healthy. Whatever...

2ndly, does one really need to know the real concentration ? Not at all ! All a hobbyist care is to ensure the proper removal thru a simple test result. Nothing more than that. No matter how much in the water for our fish to survive, think of what you are drinking into your stomach. Dun waste time dwell over it.

lastly, dun rush to react to all these information. It's never too late.

[The Matrix]

Another summary on the possible ways to treat ...

1. Activated Carbon (AC) - Price varies, depends on quality. Ideally, AC is very good agent to treat Chloramines and other contaminants in water. Most can last relatively long, a Kg probably last around 12 wks for a 3ft tank with weekly 90% water change in our local context. Some higher quality can last longer but require test for assurance.

2. Zeolite - superior chemical product but relatively higher price. Chemically structured, it's much better than AC. However between AC and Zeolite for our aquarium purposes, AC will work better due to the strong adsorption properties for Chloramines, Chlorine and Ammonia.

3. Resin - Very expensive and I think not to go too far into synthetic chemistry.

Now, there are 2 problems with these products ...

1. to have an adsorption process in our aquarium, either use a very expensive and reliable brand of AC or Zeolite. Adsorption process is not immediate as bonding of ions will take time. Water flowing to these media must be slow, very slow to allow time for the bonding process.

2. some of the contaminates can be good for our type of fish. It is a known reaction that the usage of adsorping media can have a softening effect on the water. It will be good to stablise the pH by mean of kH buffering. However, adding gH will only reduce the media life span.


Clear enough ?

And finally the infamous Sodium Thiosulphate comes into picture. It's a clear colorless monoclinic crystal. There are 2 grading - technical and photo grade (concentration different). Also know as Hypo for many RG friends here.

For our aquarium purposes, it's the cheapest dechlorinator and extremely easy to use. A Kg of the crystals only cost around S$4-5 (refer to RG Lobang) and can last many months, probably a year if one only has a single tank and regular weekly water change. Buying in bulk can be cheaper. Usually comes in sack of 25kg or 50Kg. Sorry sensitive to say how much but it's definitely a lot cheaper than u get in a kg bag.

There is no secret about Hypo and we have also discuss this in the past few days. The only disadvantage is the ammonia byproduct after the breaking of the chloramines bonding. So a good cycled filtration system is a must to mininmize the risk. Or one could use small amount of AC during water change. Whatever suits one best.

The only risk is overdose of hypo. It is best to do a chlorine test. The amount to use for our local water is very little.

What else did I miss ? Doc wanna add ?

Hope that hobbyists out there dun get conned. Dun let people dig your pocket out selling u magic products.

TGIF !

[goldrush]

TGIF


Thank god it's Finish(hopefully)
You just put the icing on the cake.Matrix Wat else can I add?You have thoroughly dealt in depth on this issue for the past few days and it left for all in this forum to decide for themselves what is best to counter the effect of Chlorine/Chloramine during their water changes.With that I rest my case..........................



goldrush

[The Matrix]

TGIF
Thank god it's Finish(hopefully)

With that I rest my case..........................

Still can go on if I want to. This "very senior" fellow here also use hypo and commercial products.

Add cherries, mango, pineapple and a few candles to make this fruit cake more "fruitful" for many to share. Bloody rare that I wrote so much.

must go home face the wall ponder ponder liao.

[ranchu8]

wah, Matrix power reply

understand as you say, better to use Cl test to avoid overdose - but may i ask how to gauge approximately, amount of thiosulphate to use for how much water? does thiosulphate have a use by date? what if it gets a bit moist cos not kept properly?

[The Matrix]

wah, Matrix power reply 

understand as you say, better to use Cl test to avoid overdose - but may i ask how to gauge approximately, amount of thiosulphate to use for how much water?  does thiosulphate have a use by date? what if it gets a bit moist cos not kept properly?

Keep in dry place, use silica, seal if unused, buy a dry box, what ever one can think of to keep a few dollars item dry... No expire date. But once moist, very difficult to use and judge the weight anymore.

How much to use har ... for 100L, just a small 1.5 gram will do more than enough. Already overdose liao. For our local water hor.

How to gauge har ?
Test after 1gram dosage and u will know still have chlorine or not lor. But the test kit might show very very faint tint of yellow, very difficult to see if u test in the night.

kekekekeke 1Kg enough for 100 tonnes of water or around 3 years supplies for a 6ft tank with weekly 90% water change.

[ranchu8]

Thanks Matrix for the very useful info

[Rooney10]

sry guys for bringing up dis thread again. bt den again, i wna be sure of whut im doing. gna start keeping goldfishes again after a break of a few yrs and not really sure abt the changing water part.

hmm, ive got 2 questions here.

1) does it make a difference whether to take water from tap(the one we drink from) or the toilet tap/sink?

2) say i add the water to my new tank and add the anti chroline thingie to the tank already. and den the nx week, i wna do a partial 50% change, i just add the anti chlorine to the new water that im adding in ryt? and is it harmful if theres too much anti chlroine in the tank? cus if u guys nawmean, after adding the new water(with the anti chlorine), it is sure to mix with the old water in the tank and the anti chlorine content is sure to rise.

haha tt was the best way i could post my queires. hope to get answers as fast as possible guys. ((: appreicate the help.