Jyokko? Options

[hahnsberg]

Hello,

This is my first time posting, but I have been reading many of the posts here for a few months. I am amazed at all the knowledge concentrated in one place!

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a Jyokko gold fish?

A picture can be seen here, if you scroll down a bit: http://koishack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14955.

They look very beautiful.

Richard

[CP]

Er............nope. Never heard of it, and certainly not available locally.

I suspect there are many more types not known to many; especially in China and Japan.

[sabao]

Hi Richard - Jyokko is a new variety developed in Japan by a friend of Tamakin who uses the call sign Tinkerbell on the internet. He does not speak English well so rarely do we hear from him. But here's a few of the photos he sent last year for anyone that did not see them in that Goldfish Shack link.

This is a very elegant and refined new type of goldfish that hopefully soon we will see exported from Japan. So far it's been difficult to get much information on Aizu-Jyokko.

Tom

[hahnsberg]

Thank you, Tom, for the information and the pictures. I love the hibuna conformation -- and the fins on these fish are stunning!

I really favour top-view for goldfish. I noticed that several of the 'feeder fish' at the local pet stores had the Tancho Kohaku koi pattern (roughly), so I bought as many as I could find. I hope to feed them up and see if I can breed a nice pattern, like on a good Tancho. I must be common in these fish -- there is always at least 2-3 of them in a tank. I got 20 or so, and two are nearly perfect already. I hope the colours stay as they grow.

For being so fragile at the pet store, I haven't lost one. I keep them outside in large tubs in green water with an airstone or two, and all have lived so far (six months).

Many thanks again,

Richard

[sabao]

Hi Richard - I was very pleasantly surprised when I first saw those photos of Jyokko, I 'm hoping we will see a Youtube video of them sometime if nothing else to see the movement. They must be great to watch, both side view and top view.

Interesting that you mentioned the topic of kohaku pattern on goldfish Richard, I find this has been on my mind a lot lately .....

I'm interested in yellow pattern on white, as well as red pattern on white. Trouble is I don't know a great deal about what makes the difference between a champion pattern and a cull pattern. Looks like you'll be heading down the same road Richard, I was wondering if this might be a good time to ask a few questions on this topic.

I was wondering if anyone else out there is working on kohaku patterns on goldfish? I know this is has reached a very high level of perfection in Japan based on photos showing up on the internet, not sure how popular this is amongst the golfish breeders in general.

I understand that color quality is important, and same with the white background. I also understand that clean and sharp edges separating the red from the white is important. This part seems straight forward, but what I don't understand very well is the details about pattern. What makes a good pattern, and what separates if from a great pattern? What is a junk pattern, what is OK quality, what separates the champion of the kohaku class from the runner-ups?

Can anyone help me out here? For example, these two sarassa Hibuna bred by Steve, how does one improve on this? Is kohaku pattern quality mostly about personal taste, or is there more to it than that? Steve I think these are amazing Hibuna (hope they're yours)



Tom

[hahnsberg]

I especially like the orange and black fish...fins are very elegant.

I would like to see hibuna coloured like koi. I went to a little koi farm about two hours from where I live (Dallas, TX) a few months ago. The lady who owns the operation had several hibuna in her ponds -- smaller than the size of half grown koi, but BIG. I thought they were koi at first -- shape, etc. It got me thinking...tancho hibuna...

Steve is the godfather of Japanese goldfish for North America!

Richard

[goldrush]

Maybe this is what you are looking for in youtube

[goldrush]

Some more







Enjoy

[bekko]

Those used to be mine Tom. I spawned them and then sold them. They are third generation for me. Hopefully, there is something better in the fourth generation.

If judged for their kohaku pattern the largest fault would be the red in the tail and pectorals. I raise kohaku koi too and find it much more difficult to get clear fins in the goldfish. The male on the left needs a tail stop (short section of white at the end of the caudal peduncle). The red should not extend down over the eye as it does on the female. The balance of the pattern is OK. The conformation is OK too.

-steve

[sabao]

Thanks for the videos Doc. As beautifull as those fish are, I don't think they are Jyokko. I'm quite sure they are Bristol Shubunkins and spin-off versions of Bristols based on the "B" shape of the tail. Similar to Jyokko but not the same.

I go to this site often and watch the Bristol vids -

http://www.green-is-no1.com/bristol/sengyo.html

Looks like the Bristol type is becoming popular with Japanese breeders, I was impressed to see this.

But Jyokko takes the Bristol a few steps further, the tail is squared off and the dorsal is bigger from what I've seen, like a singletail broadtail. Jyokko is in the earlier developement stages right now, I think soon we will start to see this variety of Japanese singletail more frequently on the internet. A goldfish this beautifull is destined to become popular I'm sure.

Tom

[sabao]

Those used to be mine Tom. I spawned them and then sold them. They are third generation for me. Hopefully, there is something better in the fourth generation.

If judged for their kohaku pattern the largest fault would be the red in the tail and pectorals. I raise kohaku koi too and find it much more difficult to get clear fins in the goldfish. The male on the left needs a tail stop (short section of white at the end of the caudal peduncle). The red should not extend down over the eye as it does on the female. The balance of the pattern is OK. The conformation is OK too.

-steve

Thanks for the reply Steve. There's potentially quite a lot of info and discussion on the subject of koi markings on goldfish, maybe best to start a new thread so the details don't get buried within the Jyokko? heading. There's lots going on in Japan based on photos I've been looking at, this is a captivating subject. I have a few questions on your reply, I'll take this and start another thread today.

Tom

[sabao]

Found a video of Jyokko:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/-14-love-fish/2801404895

They're amazing

Tom

[zlata ribica]

BEAUTIFULL !!!

I want one (more would be even better ;) )

But looking at the photos in the third post - fish in the first few photos have "normal" goldfish body while the last photo shows fish with more rounded, "fancy" body. Or is it just me? I like the first type better.
So are there more jyokko varieties out there?

[bigbettadan]

Actually some UK breeders are working on an Imperial tail from bristols........

I am going to develop a halfmoon tail from a UK line of Bristols, lord willing..

Dan