PH Buffer, Die Die must. Period. Options

[mountain]

splitted from thread here.
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I think for PH crash it might be misleading to have SODIUM BICARBONATE as 1st line of treatment .. SODIUM BICARBONATE is for buffering water, and not for treatment of fish's health plus if the PH crash, HB wouldn't advised you to dump 2 teaspoon of BS into the water immediately

[desireless]

BS will raise pH a little but that's not the way to bring back pH of water back to normal. And this act will be FATAL. Ammonia at low pH will be in ammonium form, which is harmless to fishes. But when you raise old water of pH say 5 or 6 back to above pH7, the ammonium in the old water will convert back to ammonia which will poison and kill the fishes in less than 1 day. So if you experienced a pH crash in your aquarium, it is mandatory to do a 100% water change. pH crash itself will not kill the fish, but rather what you do later, will (like changing 50% for eg). Dispose all of the old water to be sure when you experienced pH crash.

As for pH buffering, its purpose is not to raise pH but rather, maintaining pH for a longer time before it starts dropping. That's why the term "buffer". As to how much powder to add, there is no DIRECT way of testing "how much buffer is enough". BUT as Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) will increase the Bicarbonate Hardness (kH) of your water, we can use this to gauge how much of SB to add. Some smart bro already worked this out: the ideal Bicarbonate Hardness level for goldfishes is 5 or 6 degrees of bicarbonate hardness (5dkH). You'll have to use a kH Test Kit to find out how much of SB is to be used to raise, say 10 litres of water, to 5 degrees hardness (5dkH).

Help from bro ET and a further test to confirm, about 8 months ago (and I am still using this gauge) is 1 oxycure level spoon (or 2g) of SB to raise 20 litres of water to 5dkH. So work out your maths.

I hope this is not too difficult to understand.

A point to note: Different countries will have different INITIAL dkH to start with. So just stick with what's being mentioned here that, "ONE teaspoon of baking soda added to 50 liters of water can raise the kH of the water by approx 4 deg dH".

[The Matrix]

Correct some of your mistakes hor ...

BS will raise pH a little -> a lot !!! saturation of 8.5 depending on temperature and other chemicals.

pH crash itself will not kill the fish -> IT WILL !!!

there is no DIRECT way of testing "how much buffer is enough" -> isn't kH the direct way of measuring buffering if you are referring to the use of sodium bicarbonate ? Unless other chemical used, then different equation.

[desireless]

Correct some of your mistakes hor ...

BS will raise pH a little  -> a lot !!! saturation of 8.5 depending on temperature and other chemicals.

pH crash itself will not kill the fish -> IT WILL !!!

there is no DIRECT way of testing "how much buffer is enough" -> isn't kH the direct way of measuring buffering if you are referring to the use of sodium bicarbonate ? Unless other chemical used, then different equation.

Substantiate my post a little

I have tested this before but now I have re-do the experiment for you. (Other bros please do not follow blindly. If you have the needed test kits, please counter check me. My pH pen might be out of calibration after using it for so long.)

This is 10 litres of dechlorinated water, pH read 8.3


This is half 'oxycure' spoon to raise it to 5 dkH (actually after seeing this pic, I realised that I have added more than half)


15 mins after stirring the tank, I used the kH test kit to test for Carbonate Hardness. This is the colour after the 5th drop (at 5dkH). It is still not bright yellow.



Bright yellow achieved after the 6th drop, I also added a 7th drop to make sure this is the correct colour. Meaning to say, the water is at 6th degree Carbonate Hardness (6dkH). As evident, I have added a little more than half-spoon. Half spoon at level should yield 5dkH in water.


This is the pH reading: pH8.4. The bottle by side as proof. The pen was left there for more than 5 mins before I took this photo.


Maybe to you a 0.1pH difference is "a lot!!!". To me it is only "a little".


As for pH crash, I always credit deaths (after pH crash) to ammonia posioning. Reason why I say it is not deadly (instantly), is because I ever left my fishes in water of pH5+ for more than 2 days (before I understood the concept of pH buffer) and they are still alive to date . Of course, anything below pH 5 would be TOO acidic for goldfish to survive. And this would be fatal and fast, I supposed. The fish would then die of being in acidic water instead of ammonia poisoning. Reason as spoken before, ammonia at low pH is harmless to goldfishes.


Another point. There is no UNIT for "pH buffer". Hence I say there is no direct way of measurement. To me, from I learn in Science, if there is no SI unit for a certain "base quantity", then there is no way of measuring it. The measurement of Carbonate Hardness kH hence to me is, an indirect way of measuring this "pH buffer".

[CP]

Correct some facts back hor...

I have tested this before but now I have re-do the .................way of measuring this "pH buffer".

For sake of discussion.

If the experiment is to prove that BS raises pH marginally,it is not very convincing if Matrix's statement of "saturation at 8.5" holds true as you had started off with a pH of 8.3.

I interpret "saturation at 8.5" as the max pH obtainable by BS is 8.5 no matter how much you dose.Am I right?

Desireless,can do us a favour by add BS to a lower pH say 7?