Fish Head, Fish Middle, Fish Tail. Options

[CP]

If you are wondering what the heck am I talking about, this is a literal translation from Hokkien "hoo tao, hoo tiong, hoo buay ".Pls note that this write up is not posted in "chit chat & gossip".And, this post may put a damper on the majority of us hobbyists whom are likely to purchase fish to satisfy our indulgence instead of breeding them.

It was over lunch sometime last week when our bro Goldrush brought this to my attention,which I find it very logical.Basically what is happening in the commercial market is that for every brood of babies spawned, after the obvious rejects were culled, this brood is monitored and slowly categorised (by size) into hoo tao (fish head), hoo tiong (fish middle), hoo buay (fish tail).As the black babies grow in the first few weeks, some will outgrow others and it is only logical that those that grew at a faster rate will end up a bigger fish in future.Commercial farms will keep the potentials ones (hoo tao) so that they can sell it big in the later stages at a higher price.

So the first batch of fishes released into the market by them are the hoo buays (fish tail).These are the babies with the slowest growth rate in the brood.You can get very nice fishes, perfect colouration and shape etc but genetically, they will not end up a big fish.We can't tell from the LFS, but the commercial traders knew, cos they can compare from the same brood.

Next to be released are the hoo tiongs and the hoo taos are kept till they reach their max potential before putting them in the market.

Why are they doing this?Put yourself in their shoes.If you knew that this particular ranchu has potential, will you sell it for $30 as a 2" fish or keep it till its 8" and sell it for $500, or even more if it turned out to be 'showgrade'.?

So if you think that you can "save money" by trying to spot a potential small fish,buy it cheap and groom it to be a giant later, I would say the chances are very slim.Demoralising, right? How many of you managed to raise a purchased fish under 3" and kept till 8"?

I do not have much experience, but those goldfish that I bought (SV ranchus)which are under 3" max out at 6".My 7" ranchu and ryukins?I bought them at 7".Maybe my grooming skills are poor you might say, , but I consider myself "above average" .

This market practice is not confined only to goldfish, but others as well, like koi.

Moral of the story?Be contented with keeping average looking fishes (like goldrush ), or you can spend big bucks buying proven fish, or breed them yourself!!

You may feel that life sucks, but others are making a living.

[9Ranchus]

Good one.

[CyberET]

haiz.. sadly i'm not contented keeping average looking fish and not rich enough to spend big bucks buying proven fish, and too much work to breed them myself too

[The Matrix]

fish head curry lagi good.

in commercial point of view, some might release the fish head out as well. Usually fish head fetch in more money and the smaller ones are sold as feeders or cheap fish. At most keep a few good ones for breeding and the rest all release.

however, these only appear in farms which are smaller scale or home breeders. For big major farms, there is no way to do so. How to net out ponds several times the size of football field just to sort the size out ? only do it once a season.

[arohong]

Well said, I thought this is common knowledge. However her tao from my personal experience with other fishes are usually not the best, her tiongs seems to be more stable in what the breeder trys to achieve.

[goldie]

If you are wondering what the heck am I talking about, this is a literal  translation from Hokkien "hoo tao, hoo tiong, hoo buay ".Pls note that this write up is not posted in "chit chat & gossip".And, this post may put a damper   on the majority of us hobbyists whom are likely to purchase fish to satisfy our indulgence instead of breeding them.

It was over lunch sometime last week when our bro Goldrush brought this to my attention,which I find it very logical.Basically what is happening in the commercial market is that for every brood of babies spawned, after the obvious rejects were  culled, this brood is monitored and slowly categorised (by size) into hoo tao (fish head), hoo tiong (fish middle), hoo buay (fish tail).As the black babies grow in the first few weeks, some will outgrow others and it is only logical that those that grew at a faster rate will end up a bigger fish in future.Commercial farms will keep the potentials ones (hoo tao) so that they can sell it big in the later stages at a higher price.

So the first batch of fishes released into the market by them are the hoo buays (fish tail).These are the babies with the slowest growth rate in the brood.You can get very nice fishes, perfect colouration and shape etc but genetically, they will not end up a big fish.We can't tell from the LFS, but the commercial traders knew, cos they can compare from the same brood.

Next to be released are the hoo tiongs and the hoo taos are kept till they reach their max potential before putting them in the market.

Why are they doing this?Put yourself in their shoes.If you knew that this particular ranchu has potential, will you sell it for $30 as a 2" fish or keep it till its 8" and sell it for $500, or even more if it turned out to be 'showgrade'.?

So if you think that you can "save money" by trying to spot a potential small fish,buy it cheap and groom it to be a giant later, I would say the chances are very slim.Demoralising, right? How many of you managed to raise a purchased fish under 3" and kept till 8"?

I do not have much experience, but those goldfish that I bought (SV ranchus)which are under 3" max out at 6".My 7" ranchu and ryukins?I bought them at 7".Maybe my grooming skills are poor you might say, , but I consider myself "above average" .

This market practice is not confined only to goldfish, but others as well, like koi.

Moral of the story?Be contented with keeping average looking fishes (like goldrush  ), or you can spend big bucks buying proven fish, or breed them yourself!!

You may feel that life sucks, but others are making a living.

Agree. Agree.

[goldrush]

Nice write out cpiw but you dont have to quote me leh.While fish head may grow faster than its cohort they may not show favorable physical attributes other than size so the better fish usually comes from the tiong ones ( like the bell shaped curve...the bulk of the population.....the norm)The extremes are never readily and generallyaccepted just like genius and the imbecile!
in koi the size and length does matter and generally there are not many physical handicaps as compared to goldfish,so fish head would be in better demand(especially non patterned koi)



ps strange that I can acess to this site only now but not in the day??????????

[9Ranchus]

ps strange that I can acess to this site only now but not in the day??????????

Same Computer? If yes, do you use SPYWARE or FIREWALL type software? Some trojans may be at play..........

[goldrush]

Same Computer? If yes, do you use SPYWARE or FIREWALL type software? Some trojans may be at play..........

Both my desk top and lap top cannot access to RG leh
Until come home use wireless connectivity then can
No I dont use the above softwares.Do I need a recovery?

[ranchu8]

Hmm ... looks like everyone agree with the post ... cpiw2002, may i ask whether the post is with reference to all types of goldfish, generally so or specifically some?

[CP]

Hmm ... looks like everyone agree with the post ... cpiw2002, may i ask whether the post is with reference to all types of goldfish, generally so or specifically some?

Specifically TVR !!!!..

Nah joking.Refering not only to goldfish, but other ornamental fishes as well.

[ranchu8]

A breeder keeping his baby which is a potential big fish, to sell it at higher price later sounds logical. He would likely sell it when it's bigger but not necessarily when it is near its max for various reasons like fish may not appear nice when big, there are risks of death disease, too pricey, not every one likes a big or old fish etc; logically, he would sell it when it can fetch optimal returns taking into account ease of sale eg we don't see many big big Japanese tvrs being sold in Sing, probably much more readily available in Japan; i would imagine people would be generally keener in tosai/nisai rather than an oya. I think the reasoning applies for other goldfish? I don't know about koi, but if I were keeping them I would prefer to buy them young, balanced, colour and importantly bloodline i think. Do koi keepers usually prefer to pay for expensive big mature koi or pay say a fraction of the price for a say 5/6 inch one? Just talking as i don't know commercial breeders to give an accurate picture.

Sorry but i'm a bit slow in understanding the main point being made: is it that a breeder will sell his fish that have a good tail first, then good body and finally good head?

[arohong]

A breeder keeping his baby which is a potential big fish, to sell it at higher price later sounds logical.  He would likely sell it when it's bigger but not necessarily when it is near its max for various reasons like fish may not appear nice when big, there are risks of death disease, too pricey, not every one likes a big or old fish etc; logically, he would sell it when it can fetch optimal returns taking into account ease of sale eg we don't see many big big Japanese tvrs being sold in Sing, probably much more readily available in Japan; i would imagine people would be generally keener in tosai/nisai rather than an oya.  I think the reasoning applies for other goldfish? I don't know about koi, but if I were keeping them I would prefer to buy them young, balanced, colour and importantly bloodline i think. Do koi keepers usually prefer to pay for expensive big mature koi or pay say a fraction of the price for a say 5/6 inch one? Just talking as i don't know commercial breeders to give an accurate picture.

Sorry but i'm a bit slow in understanding the main point being made: is it that a breeder will sell his fish that have a good tail first, then good body and finally good head?

Bro

U missed the point completely! cpiw2002 is referring to a spawn of fish, in this spawn fries can be divided into 'her tao - bigger fries', 'her tiong - mid size ones' and 'her buay - the smaller ones' by size. Hope this puts things into better perspective for you.

[CP]

Bro

U missed the point completely! cpiw2002 is referring to a spawn of fish, in this spawn fries can be divided into 'her tao - bigger fries', 'her tiong - mid size ones' and 'her buay - the smaller ones' by size. Hope this puts things into better perspective for you.

Thanks for clarifying on my behalf.

[ranchu8]

Hey AroHong, thanks.

Does it mean that the post makes the following main point: breeder keeps bigger "babies" to sell them last and sells the smallest "babies" first. Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?

Sorry, i'm rather slow and also don't understand Hokkien "hoo tao, hoo tiong, hoo buay".


This post has been edited by ranchu8: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:46 am