Fish Head, Fish Middle, Fish Tail. Options

[CP]

Does it mean that the post makes the following main point: breeder keeps bigger "babies" to sell them last and sells the smallest "babies" first.  Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?

Yes, my friend, you just hit the G spot.

[white horse T1]

i only believe in grooming fish to its max potential iwithin my capability. - not max size.

i tot we are all told that "size does not matter" now

[ranchu8]

Yes, my friend, you just hit the G spot.

Hmm, since the above is the point of the post, does it not bring us to

A breeder keeping his baby which is a potential big fish, to sell it at higher price later sounds logical.  He would likely sell it when it's bigger but not necessarily when it is near its max for various reasons like fish may not appear nice when big, there are risks of death disease, too pricey, not every one likes a big or old fish etc; logically, he would sell it when it can fetch optimal returns taking into account ease of sale eg we don't see many big big Japanese tvrs being sold in Sing, probably much more readily available in Japan; i would imagine people would be generally keener in tosai/nisai rather than an oya.  I think the reasoning applies for other goldfish? I don't know about koi, but if I were keeping them I would prefer to buy them young, balanced, colour and importantly bloodline i think. Do koi keepers usually prefer to pay for expensive big mature koi or pay say a fraction of the price for a say 5/6 inch one? Just talking as i don't know commercial breeders to give an accurate picture.

If it does, does it mean that the conclusion "Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?" is incorrect? I suppose the chances are not great but are they slim because of the "hoo tao, hoo tiong, hoo buay"? Is the greater problem our grooming of the fish, ie space, water, food etc.

[CP]

Hmm, since the above is the point of the post, does it not bring us to
If it does, does it mean that the conclusion "Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?" is incorrect?  I suppose the chances are not great but are they slim because of the "hoo tao, hoo tiong, hoo buay"?  Is the greater problem our grooming of the fish, ie space, water, food etc.

Lawrence my friend,

Sometimes I am reluctant to answer your queries because I am always bombarded with more questions which are difficult to understand.Feels like I am under cross-examination

IMO if you already have got the hoo buay the fish will max out at a smaller pre-determined size despite the perfect upbringing be it the water parameters or its nutrition.

And I think this piece of mine is most likely a hoo buay......... 1 year keeping still only 4"......I hope it hasn't max out yet.....

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=28152

[arohong]

Hey AroHong, thanks. 

Does it mean that the post makes the following main point: breeder keeps bigger "babies" to sell them last and sells the smallest "babies" first.  Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?

Sorry, i'm rather slow and also don't understand Hokkien "hoo tao, hoo tiong, hoo buay".
 

Hi ranchu8

I personally feel that the bigger fishes are the healthlier ones followed by the medium size one and the smaller fishes are the weaker from the spawn.

If given the same amount of care the bigger fishes are likely to end up as bigger adults, however I personally feel that the medium size ones are likely to be the ones that potential winners come from.

Just a personal opinion.

[CP]

On the other hand there are honest breeders who value their integrity; I have seen a batch of koi from the same spawn being sold, the differences in sizes are obvious and needless to say the smaller of the siblings are priced more cheaply.They make it known to you that if you purchase the cheaper ones it will not end up as big as its siblings.

But then again kois from these breeders usually command a premium in the first place!!

[ranchu8]

cpiw, just raising issues as i know you like some other view point ... remember? provoking me to post something different

[The Matrix]

u guys talking goldfish or tropical fish ?

[CP]

We know so far this is a practice for goldfish and kois, not too sure for other tropical fish such as aro or discus, maybe you can enlighten?

[The Matrix]

We know so far this is a practice for goldfish and kois, not too sure for other tropical fish such as aro or discus, maybe you can enlighten?

erh ... Chinese practise ? Thailand practise ? Japan practise ?
or the Mongolian practise ?

[CP]

Thai and Jap?

[ranchu8]

Good. Matrix, what are your views? might as well, throw in also ... Chinese practise?

(edit) ps for the Japan practise, maybe the query should be with regard to their commercial breeders

This post has been edited by ranchu8: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:34 am

[The Matrix]

1-2 wks
birth defects - cull

3-4 wks
tail no good, body no good, head no good, balance no good - cull. dun care if it's super doper color. all black wat, where got color.

5-12 wks
next the so call major flaws - no future to be in the top mid range - sell.

by 13th wks u got 90% gone from day 1 and start picking your top stock. Usually in the range of 0.1%-0.5%. So 99.5% will be gone as weeks go by after 18-22 wks.

No matter "head, middle or tail", the decising factor are still the feature and the skill of the breeder to identify "potential".

Most sell their lower range fish by size. 1 price for certain size range. Simple way of doing business. Hand pick of course different liao.

As the fish grow bigger, price remains tagged to size and possible splitting into individual country grading system. but of course if the fish are much better grades, likely to have been taken out by pro and keep separately. Like the special Aquarama TungHoi grand champ lor. 1 in 100 of K for high grade fish.

If talking about bell curve, then the curve is really sharp and steep for good fish.
the curve will be skew to the right for price.
and the distribution for size could be distorted if culling occurred. but likely u see a slightly skew to left for that.

Simple lah, let me ask u, how many spawn can one home breeder handle ? Dun use Geert hor, he got a big space. I wish my neighbour share the same hobby and I can use his balcony. hahahaha. then i will definitely breed my butterfly dragon.

[ranchu8]

breeder keeps bigger "babies" to sell them last and sells the smallest "babies" first.  Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?

Thanks Matrix for the informative post. Sorry, i a bit slow again but can you pls elaborate on whether you would agree with the above? Doesn't appear like you do?

[The Matrix]

breeder keeps bigger "babies" to sell them last and sells the smallest "babies" first.  Due to this potential known to the breeders, chances are "very slim" that we can buy a small fish to groom it into a big fish?

Thanks Matrix for the informative post. Sorry, i a bit slow again but can you pls elaborate on whether you would agree with the above?  Doesn't appear like you do? 

Depends. smallest baby still got chance to grow mah. Unless u talking as a commercial point of view that $$$ is the only thing u looking at. Then of course, you will not keep those "waste time" things. But to the hobbyists like us, this is the chance to grab those potential yet small fish.

Some bigger young fish might not turn out good as well. But it does fetch some $$$ and recoup the cost of breeding. That's where you find in the lfs with reasonably big, more costly fish but not really outstanding.

The problem is where does the breeder stands. Also does the breeder knows what is a good potential fish. And subjected to how they grade their fishes.