New Breed (Squid Ranchu, Butterfly Ryukin) Options

[HappyBuddha]

Unusual variety..... Ryukin with tosakin type tail.  Again from gfc, who buys his fish from China, Japan, Thailand.

Wow, I like this one!

I read that the chinese farmers are going to mass breed this new variety of Ryukin with a Tosakin tails. So hang'on, it may be widely available in no time at all.

Woo hoo!

[Jos Nana]

That's a ryukin with butterfly tail. Not Tosakin tail.

First seen 4 years ago in Tanglin Mall, so not very rare. This line of fish is now a confirm and steady breed from Tung Hoi. Very expensive.

This post has been edited by Jos Nana: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 2:54 pm

[kingyoo]

Longtail ranchu froghead?

[kingyoo]

That's a ryukin with butterfly tail. Not Tosakin tail.

Hmmm.... I don't think butterfly. The lobes are not split. Unless butterfly is something different in Singapore. Here in USA the butterfly tail is 2 seperate lobes.

[CyberET]

Longtail ranchu froghead?

i seen it before, its not a ranchu, erm, frogfish or egg something.. also during a recent exhibition, there was a ryukin butterfly at display, butterflies with "deformed" joined tail can be mistaken as tosakins

[Jos Nana]

Hmmm.... I don't think butterfly.  The lobes are not split.  Unless butterfly is something different in Singapore.  Here in USA the butterfly tail is 2 seperate lobes.

Many butterflies have joint tails. The differentiation bet butterflies and Tosakin is at the 2 tails ends. Tosakin tails curls downwards and twist forward at the sametime.

At the old ezyboard forum, someone shot a video of a Tosakin on display by Tung Hoi. Maybe that will help.

[The Matrix]

Hmmm.... I don't think butterfly.  The lobes are not split.  Unless butterfly is something different in Singapore.  Here in USA the butterfly tail is 2 seperate lobes.

It's a butterfly tail lah ! Tosakin tail ryukin is TOSAKIN lor.

A true butterfly tail cost over S$400 to over S$1K. Almost the same price as a jap tosakin.

[kingyoo]

Many butterflies have joint tails. The differentiation bet butterflies and Tosakin is at the 2 tails ends. Tosakin tails curls downwards and twist forward at the sametime.

At the old ezyboard forum, someone shot a video of a Tosakin on display by Tung Hoi. Maybe that will help.

Yes, a butterfly could have a webbed tail. But shouldn't that fish be culled? Not worth anything....

I do know the difference between butterfly and tosakin tail. I have 1 chocolate butterfly and 2 tosakin.

But tosakin tails only twist forward and downward curl with proper training and genetics. A young tosakin does not have a downward tail end. Sometimes bad training can ruin a tosakin tail. But it doesn't matter in this case, this fish is neither a butterfly or tosakin. It is a hybrid variety that is more of a curiousity with nice color pattern. Also, I had described as tosakin type tail. No tosakin tail.

[HappyBuddha]

The mentioned video of a swimming Tosakin can be download from here (1.2MB .ZIP file -- right-click and save to disk).

On closer look, that's really not a tosakin tail but like sis kingyoo said, tosakin-like tails.

But now I'm confused. A Ryukin with a (real) Tosakin tails is a Tosakin??

I'm not familiar with Tosakin, having only seen one real life one but it never hits me that the body of a Tosakin resembles a Ryukin. The hump is small, the head is too big and the body not rounded enough... compared to a good Ryukin.

So how come a Tosakin tail Ryukin is a Tosakin? I could photoshop any one of bro laser's new Ryukins and attach a tosakin tails to it. I bet you won't say that's a Tosakin or at least... a weird looking one.

[kingyoo]

I agree with bros happybuddah, it is strange that when I read about tosakin, the description says ryukin body..... However, when I see pics of champion tosakin, they DON'T have ryukin body. Small hump, more egg shape, large,but pointy head, eyes set far back.

Maybe tosakin started off with more classic ryukin body, but got more stylized as the breeding program progressed.

I love tosakin. I like to watch mine swim. They are terrible swimmers, but cute waddle motion. AND what I like the most is that they are very, very friendly. They let me pet them and stick their heads out of the water when I walk by. (of course begging for food)

[The Matrix]

Does ryukin looks like wakin ? or a ranchu to a lionhead ?

Present ryukin body as what we know today took the shape and form thru many years of development and of course, to the demand of the general public and in the hands of expert breeders. This is true to many other types of goldfish today just like a nicely curve back ranchu instead of it's original line of straight back lionhead. Else, we will be still talking about the common goldfish. Probably in the next couple of years, things might have changed.

Tosakin was developed in Japan and originated from a ryukin. It does not mean that tosakin must be of the shape of a ryukin today. Look at some of the "no-so-good" ryukins, they do have the shape of a tosakin.

Of course, tosakin must have the standard joint tail and becos of this trademark, some of the butterfly tail that have the 2 lopes joined got to be named as "tosakin" look-alike tail. But this is incorrect. Look carefully at a tosakin tail, it's not the same as a joint tail butterfly.

Dun confuse yourself as what u see and know today.

Do you know few hundred years ago, lionhead are imperial fish and cannot be kept by commoners ?

[kingyoo]

Kingyoo says

Maybe tosakin started off with more classic ryukin body, but got more stylized as the breeding program progressed.

Demekin says

Tosakin was developed in Japan and originated from a ryukin. It does not mean that tosakin must be of the shape of a ryukin today. Look at some of the "no-so-good" ryukins, they do have the shape of a tosakin.

So we agree! Yay!

[The Matrix]

So we agree!  Yay!

well, at least the jap still hold the secrets of breeding and keeping of the tosakin.

[kingyoo]

Well not all tosakin breeding and keeping are secrects.

Here is some info I found before I bought my tosakin.

Of course there are still many, many more top secrets I am sure.

Tosakin Keeping Secrets from Japan

[The Matrix]

Well not all tosakin breeding and keeping are secrects.

Here is some info I found before I bought my tosakin.

Of course there are still many, many more top secrets I am sure.

Tosakin Keeping Secrets from Japan

these are not even secrets. Normal stuffs that many keepers know.