Maintaining Black-black, and white-white Options

[ninjaturtle]

hey everyone, im new to this board in hopes to get some tips on goldfish keeping

anyway here is my problem, i went to the LFS the other day in hopes of getting 1 black and 1 gold ranchu as a pair. but when i got there, the 2-3" specimen was barely black, it was a bronze color with black rims. so my 1st question is, Will it turn blacker as he ages? or will it be his color forever? maybe too young so thats why still bronze?

another question is, if i fed the black and gold ranchu on hikari lionhead, will this make the black even more red or bronze becuz of the color enhancer?

sorry for newbie question as im new, hope u guys can help! thanks in advance

[bekko]

There is probably no way to tell for sure if the fish has poor black because of genetics or environment/diet. I suspect that if the fish had the potential to be blacker, it would have been sold after being conditioned to be as black as the fish's genetics would allow. I have always assumed that black goldfish are sold as soon as they show the first signs of loosing the black. That is the point where they bring the highest price to the breeder.

No color enhancer. Doc may have additional tricks, but here is one...http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...=5122&st=15

Does hard water and high alkalinity help hold black in goldfish like it does in koi?

-steve

[goldrush]

Hey Steve I ain't no David Copperfield ...so no tricks or illusion

Personnally I find upkeeping blacks very challenging as they are sensitive to a few environmental parameters.They tend to retain their blacks longer in relatively cooler temperature and in dark based tubs.However if you throw them in full sun and in dark based tubs,they don't hold too well(probably due to escalating temperature).Now melanophores are found to expand in dark phases and shrink in light environment as well.So within limits we can manipulate the environmental factors to suit these breed apart from abstaining from color enhancing feeds.Of course least to say the genetic part is beyond our control

Now these were kept indoor,in cool temperature and in black bottomed tub





http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4953


And the same fish are housed in light bottomed tub(blue) when they are housed outdoor





I am not too sure of higher alkalinity that can bring out the blacks in goldfish as documented in Utsuris and Showas in koi

[chandramerpati]

Doc,
Is the box in the middle of the fiber tube contains coral chips?
Are they supposed to enhance the alkalinity level?

Thanks

[goldrush]

I put zeolites and coral chips in the container.The zeolites for residual ammonia and the coral chips act more for buffering.Not sure whether increase alkalinity benefits the black.??????But so far so goooood

[chandramerpati]

Doc,
I have talked to Hermanto and he said that coral chips increased water hardness.
High water hardness is good for black color.
But, on the other hand, high water hardness is not good for breeding reason.

Since I will apply it into my black ranchu offsprings to enhance their black color and no need in a hurry for breeding them.

Btw, any further tips and tricks on using the zeolith and coral chips?
Thanks.

[goldrush]

So the coral chips has dual function here

Time to pour more chips!!!!!!!

[lyc]

Hey Steve I ain't no David Copperfield ...so no tricks or illusion

Personnally I find upkeeping blacks very challenging as they are sensitive to a few environmental parameters.They tend to retain their blacks longer in relatively cooler temperature and in dark based tubs.However if you throw them in full sun and in dark based tubs,they don't hold too well(probably due to escalating temperature).Now melanophores are found to expand in dark phases and shrink in light environment as well.So within limits we can manipulate the environmental factors to suit these breed apart from abstaining from color enhancing feeds.Of course least to say the genetic part is beyond our control

Now these were kept indoor,in cool temperature and in black bottomed tub
http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4953
And the same fish are housed in light bottomed tub(blue) when they are housed outdoor

I am not too sure of higher alkalinity that can bring out the blacks in goldfish as documented in Utsuris and Showas in koi

ur blackie very nice..i find it hard to get gd speciman as either the body shape or the tail is out of portional for black ranchu

[goldrush]

Have patience.You can find them in reputable LFS but there is a premium to pay for those that can grow big.Most will stall at 4 to 5 inch from poor bloodlines.However it may never grow beyond 7 inch(I guess).....not including Chinese blacks of course!

[bekko]

Today, some guys in our local club were saying that black ranchu need a lot of sunlight to maintain or improve black color and they will turn bronze when put inside, This so?

-steve

[goldrush]

Today, some guys in our local club were saying that black ranchu need a lot of sunlight to maintain or improve black color and they will turn bronze when put inside, This so?

-steve

It really depends on the origin of the fish.Chinese blacks are more susceptible to color fading especially in poor water environment and lack of sunshine..However the Thai blacks are more resistant to color changes even when kept in minimal sunshine setup but under good optimal water conditions.These are my own personal findings.

[ninjaturtle]

at my lfs, there are 2"-3" bronze color ranchus, should i still buy it? will it ever turn black?

[bekko]

The breeder can read the tea leaves better than the comsumer. If the breeder thought it was going to grow up to be a beautiful black ranchu, then they would have grown it themself so it would be worth more money when sold.

-steve

[goldfishpassion]

What i have learn about keeping or developing the blackness on Thai Black Ranchu are:

Keep them in the Glass tank with bare bottom where they can get sunlight and the temperature must be somewhere around 75-82F
while feeding with no color enhancer(which everybody know this)
The reason that you need Glass tank because of the sunlight can reflect the bare bottom to give sunlight to its belly.
It is the new thing i learn in this topic that water hardness have play important role in its blackness.

[CnT]

How to maintain black colors? I hv ranchus whose black coloring slowly turns to gold with time. Wats the secret to keeping black-black? I hv heard keep in low temp 24-25C, n hi hardness 5KH, n feed non-color enhanced food.

How to maintain white colors? I hv ranchus whose snow white wen slowly turns to off-white/yellow with time. Just the wen, the body still nice white-white. How to keep the wen white-white?

Do these pellets hv color enhancer? Saki Hikari Basic, green pack. And Tropical Spirulina granules.

Thanks