My Setup - Sushiman, Low and Broad Multi-levels Glass Tanks Options

[sushiman]

Halo all bros here,me newbie to goldfish.Kindly gv ur comments pls.
Good or bad r welcome.

[mountain]

i like your fish, but unfortunately if u are asking for comments about your setup, i am going to say u are getting it wrong. your fish are fairly big, One of the pic's has 5 ranchus in a tank., there is not enough water volume to go along with it. It is going to overload your bio-filtration unless you are changing water every frequently.

[Seacucumber]

sushi,
overcrowded liao....
3 fish per tank at the most....
and also get rid of the powerhead filter at the corner and replace with a sponge filter instead.....

[RBT]

sushi,when pics taken ? date on photo 1.1.2003??(new camera issit leh!!)

[HappyBuddha]

I love the Ranchu tanks!

Could 3-tiers be possible?

Yeah, drop the powered filter - it can't house as much BB as a sponge and generates way too much current for goldfish.

[ah boy]

Hi

Like you set-up!!! You fishes looks good too...

I have a similar set-up.....top tier is 4x2x1ft(for side view) and bottom 3x2x1ft(for top view fishes)...both running on canister filters...plan to have 8 and 5 fishes for the top & bottom tank respectively...

You may want to try using Canister filters.....have bigger capacity for beneficial bacteria(BB) growth!!...use good medias like eheim ehfi-substrate, bioglass, biohome, etc!!! Jus IMHO!!!

The powerhead could be a bit too strong...and not good enough of BB growth.

Regards
Wai Yip

[Seacucumber]

wai yip,
canister filter is not advisable....
many bros here including myself have totally give up on them liao.......

cleaning and maintainence of canister filter is a pain in the ass

[Jos Nana]

Hi

Like you set-up!!! You fishes looks good too...

I have a similar set-up.....top tier is 4x2x1ft(for side view) and bottom 3x2x1ft(for top view fishes)...both running on canister filters...plan to have 8 and 5 fishes for the top & bottom tank respectively...

You may want to try using Canister filters.....have bigger capacity for beneficial bacteria(BB) growth!!...use good medias like eheim ehfi-substrate, bioglass, biohome, etc!!! Jus IMHO!!!

The powerhead could be a bit too strong...and not good enough of BB growth.

Regards
Wai Yip

Suggest you read up the whole forum first.

Cannister is history to a lot of us here.

[Absolute Ranchu]

I use the sponge filter like the one if the pictures for all my ponds at home. It requires that you have to ciphon the solid waste and big pieces of dirt and get rid of the protein that often floats on the top of the water (skim the protein away), on top of the regular chores of work. It is a bit time consuming but the sponge is excellent at picking up small dust particles in the ponds and keep the water relatively clear. (I use them in large ponds and also in all three of my aquariums for my Lau Hans, too.) Without the additional work, you will cause the sponge to be a big source of bacteria producers, and the more algae you have on the sponge, the less effective the sponge will get. You will also have to adjust the air that goes through the sponge filter and make sure that the air is not on too high. (The sponge is meant for you to have air going through them slowly for best result.) I also dry the sponge once a week in sunlight, this will take care of all the algae, and bacteria that grows on the sponge. Using the sponge filter (with proper maintenace) is ideal for reducing the problems that you may faced with fish gill's problems. Water that contains a lot of dirty small dust particle may leads to gill problems in goldfish, particularly ranchus. (If your fish die, check the gill, if the color is faded white, that's what a gill problem is like.)

Water condition is the most important thing that can help promote the right growth pattern for goldfish. There are no magic systems that you can use that will allow you not to have to do too much work or clean the system at least once or twice a week. I clean my pond twice a days at least and that's what keep the pond cleans and the fish healthy, not what I use in the pond. Even if you have a great system, but you are lazy about cleaning, your fish will get sick and your water will get soil. No systems can replace hard work.

Every one knows what is good for goldfish, such as clean environment to live in everyday. The things about keeping good fish is that you can never become lazy. Works never stop. The best keepers are the one that put in the work every day without fail, not the one that use the best system. You can just have a pond, small pump, diffuser and nothing else, but if you work hard you will be able to promote the right growth pattern, towards keeping and developing the best fish.

I have tried using every systems that are available in the market, and nothing beats the hard work that you can do hands on. It cost the least as well.

This post has been edited by Absolute Ranchu: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:50 am

[square_guy]

Pat, I know you follow the thai way of keeping fish (ie continuous water change, daily siphoning of waste, clear water). This is just to add balance to the discussion.

There are also quite a number of hobbyist in Singapore and on this forum who utilize green water. In fact I believe the majority of us are in fact using (or converting/try to learn etc ) green water. There are marked difference between the 2 methods, and I shall not (not qualified to anyway) comments on the merits/demerits of both.

[Absolute Ranchu]

I also use green water in my ponds and some of my aquariums. Using green water does not mean that you have no work to do. There are more bacterias and harmful elements more than in regular Japanese systems (not Thai) of keeping goldfish. You have to either add good bacteria or clean the surface often. I also have a three ton pond (outside with roof) that I use for my ranchu. The pond is 7 meters long and about 2 meters wide. It is a very big green water system. Even with such a big green water system, I still have to do a lot of work to upkeep the pond. Doing no choirs is a sure way to make my fish sick. This is from about 10 years of experience of keeping ranchus in different enviroment. I have personally tried every systems that are available in the market, already. And I mean everything.

My experience is from practices not from text books. I also use green water in my aquarium (smaller sytem, 7feet long tank) for my cicchlids, but it also require a lot of work too. I hope that my experience will be valuable to some. cheers.

Pat

[caster]

I also use green water in my ponds and some of my aquariums. Using green water does not mean that you have no work to do.  There are more bacterias and harmful elements more than in regular Japanese systems (not Thai) of keeping goldfish. You have to either add good bacteria or clean the surface often.  I also have a three ton pond (outside with roof) that I use for my ranchu. The pond is 7 meters long and about 2 meters wide. It is a very big green water system. Even with such a big green water system, I still have to do a lot of work to upkeep the pond.  Doing no choirs is a sure way to make my fish sick.  This is from about 10 years of experience of keeping ranchus in different enviroment.  I have personally tried every systems that are available in the market, already.  And I mean everything.

My experience is from practices not from text books. I also use green water in my aquarium (smaller sytem, 7feet long tank) for my cicchlids, but it also require a lot of work too. I hope that my experience will be valuable to some. cheers.

Pat

Hi

The discussion is getting interesting...I am one of those who are interested in starting green water and have heard lots of good things abt it...

Currently, I am practising 80% water change 3~4 days... with daily addition of water (2 big pail). with filtration system.

I discover that with a lot of hard work and very regular water change, I am able to increase the intensity of my number of fish per gallon and my fish grow well. I am able to get good coloration and growth rate, I do get 4~5 hrs of sun a day. However, I am unable to compare to green water because I am have not tried that before.

Could u comment on your personal preference between the Thai way & Jap way ?

[square_guy]

There are more bacterias and harmful elements more than in regular Japanese systems (not Thai) of keeping goldfish. You have to either add good bacteria or clean the surface often.  I also have a three ton pond (outside with roof) that I use for my ranchu. The pond is 7 meters long and about 2 meters wide. It is a very big green water system. Even with such a big green water system, I still have to do a lot of work to upkeep the pond.  Doing no choirs is a sure way to make my fish sick.

What do you mean that there are more bacterias and harmful elements in a green water environment than a regular Japanese system? Could you share with us about the japanese system?

What good bacteria do you have to add to the green water?

I do not have a pond and thus could not comment on the work required. In an indoor 3ft tub green watersetup, weekly cleaning of the tub is beneficial generally. Weekly water change is also good in general. But that is about the amount of work required. How much work do you mean when you said you have to do a lot of work?

For pond, you may like to take a look at this website
GreenNGold SG
They seem to have quite a number of ponds, and they are just hobbyists!

[CyberET]

now i know y thai fishes r more expensive than chinese fishes

[Absolute Ranchu]

What do you mean that there are more bacterias and harmful elements in a green water environment than a regular Japanese system? Could you share with us about the japanese system?

What good bacteria do you have to add to the green water?

I do not have a pond and thus could not comment on the work required. In an indoor 3ft tub green watersetup, weekly cleaning of the tub is beneficial generally. Weekly water change is also good in general. But that is about the amount of work required. How much work do you mean when you said you have to do a lot of work?

For pond, you may like to take a look at this website
GreenNGold SG
They seem to have quite a number of ponds, and they are just hobbyists! 

In Japanese system, new water will continue to be ciphoning in on the around the clock basis. Most of the fish will be raised in systems that new water will be added at interval through out the day, no additive, just clean, clear and cold water. (Most of the serious farm in Japan will be located next to great natural spring water since pipe water in Japan is more expensive than beer.) Most of the professional keepers find that using green water posed enough risk that they do not want to use with their championship fish. It is easier to put in the work and keep the fish in clear water. Championship fish is not only extremely expensive, but they are more about pride than anything else. They are rare and they are like jewels for serious fish keepers in Japan. Once the fish is at the adult stage, then you can move the fish back to green water condition since they will be full grown and their immune system will be at their peak. A short period in green water condition will improve the fish scales and color condition a great deal.

You have to add good bacterial in closed systems. These bacteria are the same kind used in most koi pond. There are good and bad bacteria in the green water system (naturally). If you do not put in good bacterial, your system could become a biogical experiment that is harmful to your fish. What kind of germs that will effect fish in green water system, they are usually the most common one in your neighbourhood.

The good bacteria will help to reduce the amount of algae and keep the water clean and clear, and get rid of bad germs that cause conditions like tail and fin rotts. The bacteria will also help to get rid of the bad elements in the water (from fish, wastes, protein secreted, or ammonia wastes). In Thailand, there are many brands and different application forms from different country products available. There are pills from Japan and USA and Europe and many more. There are also already mixed liquid germs available in the market, as well. They are made in Thailand, though. I am currently using the Microzyme BioPond-Clears Water in Pond (Micro Enzyme with Biogical Bacteria) made by White Crane Aqua Product in Thailand. It comes an easy to use pellet. One pellet per one ton of water. You can break it up and use it in aqua tanks, as well.

I asked an Aqua Scientist at the University of Agriculture of Thailand (next to the airport in BKK) and he said that you should use the bacteria that are cultured locally, which means that the domestic brands are usually the best. You can try them and report back how it is. Koi keepers are usually the best green water keepers around. If you know some around town, it is really helpful to sit down with them and try to pick their brains. They have a lot of experience with really large system, and we just have to miniaturize the system to fit our needs.

Green system means that you utilize "old water"(water in closed system that has been cleaned over and over with usually biological filtration system, the water will contain a lot of algae, vitamins, and minerals that are excellent for fish growth). This is an excellent way of promoting the best growth out of your fish (same for koi and goldfish alike). It usually requires a large endowment of resources at the beginning but in the long term it is the best system to keep fish (required professional pond constructor, the size of the filtration system, and the amount of water in the pond is most crucial and must be right or else it will never work).

The fish raised in this sort of system also requires the least amount of maintainance chores. You have to clean the top water regularly and cleaned the filtration system from time to time. This is possible with the help of bacteria. Using old water doesn't mean that you do not add water, on the contrary, you have to keep adding new water everyday. This is the best way to simulate the changes of temperature in real natural habitat. When you add new water to system the fish will automatically gain additional appetite which will add to the growth rate.

This is my comments, and I hope that it is helpful.

When I talk about a lot of work, I mean that I fuss around the fish quite a lot around the clock (daytime). I first wake up at 6 clear the top of the water on the pond and tanks. I ciphon all the visible waste manually then add new water so that the pond and tank overflow. I feed the first time at 6.30 am, then I wait a while and take care of the waste and clean the top water some more. (If I do not do it, I have staffs to it on my behalf. That makes it much easier.) Then I leave them alone until 3 hours later, and I do it all over again. We feed the fish four times a day, and we do the chores five times a day(one more before closing the pond and tank for the night). That's what I mean by a lot of work.

I also watch the fish before I feed each meal, while they feed and after they feed to see their reactions and how they are. You can tell a lot how a fish is by just looking at them. YOu can tell when they have enough food and when to stop. You have to notice the bulge of their stomach carefully, by looking at the fish every day then you will be able to tell. this may sounds funny to some people. Some people(including my wife) think that I am a slave to my fish. But I just can't stop myself, what can I say. I like doing it. The reason is that I have been able to breed and grow really nice fish because of it. This is what I mean by doing by experience, not from a book.

I love to help and I like to share my experiece. This is not because I want to be a big shot or something, but because it will be better for the fish. If you like your fish, try what I recommend. If you find that it does not work for you, I would love to hear about it, so may be I can improve my techniques. It is all about sharing, right. The best things for our fish.

I bid you peace on this auspicious day of the Thai New Year. Happy New Year to all Members and may your year be filled with prosperity for you, your families, and your fish.

Sawasdee krap

Pat

This post has been edited by Absolute Ranchu: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 3:48 pm