Getting Rid Of Nitrate Options

[HappyBuddha]

And what's the reason for max airflow ? I thou BB cannot withstand too high water current ?

I'm quite sure BB can withstand the current generated by a sponge filter. Afterall, the current is relatively weak compared to that inside a typical OHF where many owners often proudly brag about flow rate of thousands of litres per hour!

By over-stocking, maybe we are putting in 2-3 GFs per 100 litres, therefore we would need a higher amount of BB to break down all the waste generated but does this perception/assumption really works ?

You assumed correctly; just cultivate more BB to accomodate an overstocked tank. It implies as you add more fish, all you need to do is add more filters.

Unfortunately, this view is seriously flawed.

You overlooked one fact about the nitrogen cycle. Although you can convert more ammonia (produced by higher fish load) by adding more filtration, the end result is you get more nitrate. Although relatively harmless compared to ammonia, long term exposure to high nitrate concentration (in excess of 10-25 [some say 50] ppm) is said to stunt your fish.

So now with high stock level and more filtration, you need a way to get rid of nitrate. Although you can add plants which takes in nitrate as nutrients, the best way is to change water to discard the nitrate laiden water.

So your answer as to how do hdb dwellers keep overstocked goldfish tank can be sum up as "change water frequently".

You can read up about the accumulative nature of nitrate in the excellent article, My Journey with Nitrates. I hope you will comprehen it fully and come to the conclusion that the way things go, sparsely stocked tank filtered by sponge filters accompanied by diligent water change is the only way to go if you don't just want to keep your goldfish alive but to groom and let it grow to its maximum potential.

And finally I want to add one thing about the need to keep lots of goldfish...

Do ask yourself why is there a need to keep so many goldfish to the extend you know you're overstocking your tank? Wouldn't keeping an amount that you can manage (50-100 litres per fish) be better? I'm quite sure it's fun and exciting to have 45 dogs and puppies in your living room. But I hope you'll have enough time to bath them, feed them, walk them etc. In any case, your 45 pets will probably not be healthy or at their best form becoz you only have that much time and money to spend on your pet.

But of course, I know you'll have better sense and max out at maybe 2 doggies if you live in a flat. Thank goodness for common sense.

So why not apply the same thot when you keep goldfish in your 4 feet tank?

[white horse T1]

There is not ideal stocking level. Usual figure such as 1GF to 10gals are general guidelines. If you are confident enough, you can always stock higher.

The above points are for keeping the fish alive only. If you are concerned about other issues (eg growth, health ), that's a totally different ball game...

Another guideline we usually see on the web is that cycling will take 1 month. again this depends on many factors.

i read sq guy thread at AF on nitrate. last week i measure NO3 and shocked to see that it hit 80 ppm. this week it hit 100 ppm. after performing 20% water change, still measure at 100 ppm.
why i do a check ? bec i see all the goldfish eyes seem to get bigger and bigger when i compared with the photos i first got them.

since i am using sump tank. i bought 4 of those guanhin plant (guan Inn teck in teachew) and place them at the last compartment. hopefully this will lower down the nitrates. will be getting those floating aq plant as backup. hopefully this will remove the nitrate with 20% water weekly change

if it don fall to 40ppm; the next move may be to buy "tetra nitrate minus". (as stated, it is a one time application)

anyone buy before; how much?

[mountain]

yur tank prob got nitrate readings higher than 100 ppm, but your test kits can only measure up til 100 ppm. Therefore, the amount of water change you performed was not enough to bring it down significantly. 20% is very little. at 100ppm, i would have sugguest you do a 80%. follow by continual small changes the next few days to really bring it down.

[HappyBuddha]

i read sq guy  thread at AF on nitrate.  last week i measure NO3 and shocked to see that it hit 80 ppm. this week it hit 100 ppm.  after performing 20% water change,  still measure at 100 ppm.
why i do a check ?  bec i see all the goldfish eyes seem to get bigger and bigger when i compared with the photos i first got them.

since i am using sump tank.  i bought 4 of those guanhin plant (guan Inn teck in teachew)  and place them at the last compartment.  hopefully this will lower down the nitrates.  will be getting those floating aq plant as backup.  hopefully this will remove the nitrate with 20% water weekly change

if it don fall to 40ppm; the next move may be to buy "tetra nitrate minus".  (as stated, it is a one time application) 

anyone buy before; how much?

This is for whtan...

100 ppm of nitrate is way off any safe guidelines for goldfish.

Since you have a fresh nitrate test kit, put it to good use and do the following:-

Replace 100% of the water, including those in your sump tank. Be careful not to kill your BB.

Test the nitrate level. It should be zero.

Repeat the test 24 hours later. It should be positive (let's assume it's 10 ppm). Do not change any water.

Repeat daily for 7 days. If it was 10 ppm a day after water change, it will read 70 ppm. Nitrate accumulates.

Since your water is 1 week old, you would change 20% (like you said earlier) right? Fine. After this 1st week's water change, your nitrate level is down to 80% of 70 ppm = 56 ppm. Afterall, you discard 20% of the nitrate when you changed water. Woo hoo!

On the 8th day (since you changed 100%), your nitrate will be 56 ppm + 10 ppm = 66 ppm (which is 4 ppm less than yesterday ah!)

On the 9th day, it'll 76 ppm.

On the 14th day, it will be 126 ppm.

By the 2nd week since you changed 100%, most test kit no longer register the nitrate level since it's above 100 ppm. I think that's a bloody obvious clue to you that anything more than 100 ppm is... erm... outrageous?

What're my points?

1. Always stock correctly.
2. Always test your nitrate level in an established tank to work out how long the water can last in that setup.
3. green water dun have nitrate.
4. Ever consider keeping demekins with jumbo size eyes?

[HappyBuddha]

if it don fall to 40ppm; the next move may be to buy "tetra nitrate minus".  (as stated, it is a one time application) 

anyone buy before; how much?

... if it really works without any harmful by-products it would have been listed in RafflesGold Lobang for many bros to whack cheap cheap.

http://www.tetra-fish.co.uk/tetratropical/...itrateminus.asp

[white horse T1]

This is for whtan...

100 ppm of nitrate is way off any safe guidelines for goldfish.

Since you have a fresh nitrate test kit, put it to good use and do the following:-

Replace 100% of the water, including those in your sump tank.  Be careful not to kill your BB.

Test the nitrate level. It should be zero.

Repeat the test 24 hours later.  It should be positive (let's assume it's 10 ppm).  Do not change any water.

Repeat daily for 7 days.  If it was 10 ppm a day after water change, it will read 70 ppm.  Nitrate accumulates.

Since your water is 1 week old, you would change 20% (like you said earlier) right?  Fine.  After this 1st week's water change, your nitrate level is down to 80% of 70 ppm = 56 ppm.  Afterall, you discard 20% of the nitrate when you changed water.  Woo hoo!

On the 8th day (since you changed 100%), your nitrate will be 56 ppm + 10 ppm = 66 ppm (which is 4 ppm less than yesterday ah!)

On the 9th day, it'll 76 ppm.

On the 14th day, it will be 126 ppm.

By the 2nd week since you changed 100%, most test kit no longer register the nitrate level since it's above 100 ppm.  I think that's a bloody obvious clue to you that anything more than 100 ppm is... erm... outrageous?

What're my points?

1.  Always stock correctly.
2.  Always test your nitrate level in an established tank to work out how long the water can last in that setup.
3.  green water dun have nitrate. 
4.  Ever consider keeping demekins with jumbo size eyes?

HB okie got it, for a moment i tot u school lecturer. but cannot anyhow use cane huh...
yr suggestion is good but hey the weekend is over alr. i spent alr ...perhaps next weekend.

all is not lost
don get angry hor...
got the ppm mix up it was 40 then
and goes up to 80 ppm. and consistently maintaining at 80 despite changing 20 %.

in order to last till nxt wk, i ve
: started planting compaign in sump today. a less taxing and easier solution to alleviate the problem.
: will do another 30% change to see any changes to bring the ppm now. no energy to do a 100%.

alr check out the tetra website b4 posting. someone has tested it in AF experiment.
while it may not be a lobang buy, anyone has used it effectively before full scale here and verify its effectiveness? that is one more brand from Seachem, PRIME claim it can detoxify nitrate also.

never consider keeping demekin.

[white horse T1]

HB okie got it,  for a moment i tot u school lecturer.  but cannot anyhow use cane huh...
yr suggestion is good but hey the weekend is over alr.  i spent alr ...perhaps next weekend.

all is not lost
don get angry hor... 
got the ppm mix up it was 40 then
and goes up to 80 ppm.  and consistently maintaining at 80 despite changing 20 %.

in order to last till nxt wk, i ve
: started planting compaign in sump today.  a less taxing and easier solution to alleviate the problem.
: will do another 30% change to see any changes to bring the ppm now. no energy to do a 100%.

alr check out the tetra website b4 posting.    someone has tested it in AF experiment.
while it may not be a lobang buy, anyone has used it effectively before full scale here and verify its effectiveness?  that is one more brand from Seachem, PRIME claim it can detoxify nitrate also.

never consider keeping demekin.

day 0
after performing a 30% water change and before that soaking the guan in teck for 10 hrs in sump, test again late last night ppm drop to 10

day 1
pending

[white horse T1]

day 0
after performing a 30% water change and before that soaking the guan in teck for 10 hrs in sump, test again late last night ppm drop to 10

day 2
gosh ! up to 40 ppm in one day.....

[mountain]

bio-load + the amount of feeding can contribute to the nitrate factor wor....

[RBT]

Just a show case:

got one day not toooo long ago me think i so smart(kenna smack more like it)lazy to mix + wanna give my gfs a salt bath for all of them.THROW lots of salt into tank WITH the canister running(think that flow would melt salt faster.).

guess wat........yup all my bbs mati

2nd day water cloudy thought overfeed.Did a 80% water change stop feeding.Again water cloudy---THEN something struck me alamak my bbs my babies!!!!!!!

Did a 80% water change every other day.guess wat sala again a bro told to let the fishes tahan a bit,do a 20% change.S l o w l y but surely bbs establish again.

Why so slowly(abt 4-5wks).WHY!!! let me tell u why, me again too smart 4 myself hehe.Whenever i top up water i let canister run(guess wat)I point(accidentally of cause) the hose(tap water) at the canister inlet.(ps got put anti-clorine lah)

So the moral of the story is don't point pipe at anyone.wahahahhahaah(fall off chair)

[YLD]

Although relatively harmless compared to ammonia, long term exposure to high nitrate concentration (in excess of 10-25 [some say 50] ppm) is said to stunt your fish.

HB, i just wish to confirm.

Ranchu with big/protruding eyes are caused by excess level of nitrate?

[HappyBuddha]

day 2
gosh ! up to 40 ppm in one day.....

I'm betting today (day 3) the nitrate level will be about 70 ppm.

Tell me I'm right.

[HappyBuddha]

Just a show case:

got one day not toooo long ago me think i so smart(kenna smack more like it)lazy to ...

Kekeke. I guess the moral of the story is - beside learning how to keep your goldfish, we must learn how to keep our BB too.

[HappyBuddha]

HB, i just wish to confirm.

Ranchu with big/protruding eyes are caused by excess level of nitrate?

In a nutshell the answer is yes.

But I should make it clear it is not the direct cause. You see, at low concentration (below 50 ppm) nitrate is relatively harmless (compared to ammonia and nitrite). But long term exposure to high concentration will stress the fish out. The fish won't die immediately but it will not be able to develop well. A stunt fish is one where the body is short/small for its age but the eyes and finnage are large for its body size.

[HappyBuddha]

This new topic is splitted out from:-

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=840

Please carry on the discussion here...

This post has been edited by HappyBuddha: Tue, 18 May 2004 8:50 am